French was the first foreign language I'd heard as a child, which made me aware of the many different ways people all around the world communicate with words.
Another intellectually stimulating essay, thank you! Coming of age in the UK, when I moved to the US I had to stop calling cigarettes “fags”. But that barely touches on the differences in culture in the apparently same language of English. The directness of southeast English parlance by people known to be reserved compared to the opacity of the speech of unreserved Californians is one of life’s mysteries. “Toilet” vs. “bathroom” is just one example. But on the other hand, meaning can be more obscure in a southeast English interaction than in California. It’s all so confusing and I’m still trying to learn not to swear so much, ha.
150 speakers left of this dialect on Okracoke Island in NC's Outer Banks. Very cool.
I just stumbled on this this morning while looking for something else.
(Sorry, don't know how to make a one word link in these comments. )
I love how language is in a constant feedback loop with everything else in the world. A beautiful thing our brains do. Great piece Portia, and there's nothing stodgy about that cake either.
Okracoke Island is a beautiful place. The dialect does sound like Irish or Scottish, it's amazing how long it has survived. What a great video, Tod, thanks!
We really speak the same language, after all. If only we could remember that this Earth is home to all of us, and stop tormenting and killing each other.
All day, and tomorrow, and.. Right. These brains evolved in some directions but not in others. Why didn't we evolve toward a peaceful existence instead of this mess, which is trending worse it seems.
Thank you for this interesting post, Portia! Disconnections between language variants? Don’t get me started! In Guangzhou, a Cantonese city where I’m from, if you want to take away food, you’ll ask the restaurant to have it ‘打包’, which literally means ‘pack (the food) up’. But apparently in Hong Kong, another Cantonese city, this word means ‘pack dead bodies up’. Long story short, once in Hong Kong, I asked them to pack up the dead body of my wonton soup …
By the way, that Gianduja chocolate cake looks delicious. Who among us has not over-roasted a few (dozen) nuts? And the ganache appears glossy and lush. It must have been a sweet cake and a sweet gift.
Zibow, you must have sounded like a proper Mafia lady to the Hong Kong restaurant staff. I don't want to mess with you. ;-) I was the one who over-roasted the nuts, the rest is all hubby's great work. And it was sweet and lovely, yes.
ma sei una (splendida) scoperta! Adovo le curiosità e le corrispondenze (o le disconnessioni) tra le varie lingue, una curiosità che ho soddisfatto solo in parte all'università, perciò questo tuo articolo mi è molto piaciuto! Anche da noi in Liguria si usa dire "parlare francese come una vacca spagnola", by the way, almeno dalle mie parti in terra frontaliera. :-)
Ahaha vuoi troppo ora…anche perché il genovese è diverso dal dialetto che parlano qua sul confine con la Francia (io sono di Sanremo). E comunque questa è una mia grande pecca: conosco pochissimo il dialetto della mia regione (vedi tu, ormai so meglio el venesian!)
Does donkey sound like year in French? Is that another possibility? Though I’m partial to the theory that the expression is because baby donkeys look cute.
Really enjoyed this. When I lived in Italy, I was taught some Bergamasco - I'd then be invited to trot it out (and everybody would roll about laughing)...
There are 2 cities in S. Korea called Gwangju, one larger and one smaller, but in different provinces and both spelled the same way in modern Korean, which is phonetic. However, their names are based on different Chinese characters, the classical Chinese writing system having been the literary language of the country's upper class until the 19th century. The similarity in pronunciation was merely coincidental.
Something like that actually happened to me and a friend; not with Gwangju, but another place name. There are 2 neighbourhoods in Seoul with the same name, for the same reasons as explained above. My friend and I agreed to meet by a certain exit from the metro, but didn't find each other because we were in the "wrong" neighbourhood, lol.
The Korean Wave has truly swept the world. I wouldn't have believed it possible when I first went to Korea in the late 90s. The last K-drama, more a dramedy, that I watched was Dr. Cha.
As someone who doesn’t have so much as an attached lobe for languages ( I live in Italy and I’m hopelessly shit ) it’s really interesting hearing about these little multilingual intricacies.
No, I live in the Netherlands, not far from Amsterdam. We left Italy in 2005, and have neither looked nor come back. And our daughter became a British citizen a couple of years ago. What do you do in Milan? Don't you find Italians extremely annoying? ;-)
Ooh I bet that’s lovely! Every Italian I know who left is constantly looking back. I work as an editor but for a uk company. How about yourself? Haha no, not at all! Possibly as I can’t completely understand them. But I find them super charming on the whole (my gf included!)
Borrowed from Stephen Hawking's idea, with Pink Floyd's 'Keep Talking' in the background: 'For millions of years, we lived like animals; then we learned to talk.' The saying goes, 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.' Humans expressed themselves through sounds and writing.
I find language evolution interesting and enjoy exploring the linguistic tree at times. European languages possess a unique charm, sounding distinctly pleasing and romantic. While reading your post, which I found it interesting, I checked the linguistic tree of Western Romance languages – take a look here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Romance_languages.
I appreciate the information, and I loved it. However, I couldn't find some of the older languages in the tree, particularly the Southern Brahmi scripts. Nevertheless, I understand that it's impossible to depict the entire list. Thank you for providing the link! :)
Edit : Sorry, I got it - the article is specifically for illustrating the relationships between Indo-European and Uralic languages. Please ignore the above comment regarding the Southern Brahmi scripts.
Hi Gloria, I'm not an expert, but I remember what my dad told me, when I was a little girl and wanted to know what a trade union was for. He told me how those American women fought for all the workers' rights, and the hardship they had to endure, but their fights were crucial. "The rising of the women is the rising of the race".
Another intellectually stimulating essay, thank you! Coming of age in the UK, when I moved to the US I had to stop calling cigarettes “fags”. But that barely touches on the differences in culture in the apparently same language of English. The directness of southeast English parlance by people known to be reserved compared to the opacity of the speech of unreserved Californians is one of life’s mysteries. “Toilet” vs. “bathroom” is just one example. But on the other hand, meaning can be more obscure in a southeast English interaction than in California. It’s all so confusing and I’m still trying to learn not to swear so much, ha.
Navigating the perilous seas of the multiple English languages isn't for the faint-hearted.
So right! :)
https://www.visitocracokenc.com/island-brogue/#:~:text=“Hoi%20Toider%2C”%20as%20the,of%20the%20area%27s%20extreme%20isolation.
150 speakers left of this dialect on Okracoke Island in NC's Outer Banks. Very cool.
I just stumbled on this this morning while looking for something else.
(Sorry, don't know how to make a one word link in these comments. )
I love how language is in a constant feedback loop with everything else in the world. A beautiful thing our brains do. Great piece Portia, and there's nothing stodgy about that cake either.
Okracoke Island is a beautiful place. The dialect does sound like Irish or Scottish, it's amazing how long it has survived. What a great video, Tod, thanks!
We really speak the same language, after all. If only we could remember that this Earth is home to all of us, and stop tormenting and killing each other.
"if only." I wonder every day why we can't move beyond it.
Too lazy, too stupid, too full of ourselves, too sure of being the ones who are always right,... how long have you got?
All day, and tomorrow, and.. Right. These brains evolved in some directions but not in others. Why didn't we evolve toward a peaceful existence instead of this mess, which is trending worse it seems.
Thank you for this interesting post, Portia! Disconnections between language variants? Don’t get me started! In Guangzhou, a Cantonese city where I’m from, if you want to take away food, you’ll ask the restaurant to have it ‘打包’, which literally means ‘pack (the food) up’. But apparently in Hong Kong, another Cantonese city, this word means ‘pack dead bodies up’. Long story short, once in Hong Kong, I asked them to pack up the dead body of my wonton soup …
By the way, that Gianduja chocolate cake looks delicious. Who among us has not over-roasted a few (dozen) nuts? And the ganache appears glossy and lush. It must have been a sweet cake and a sweet gift.
Zibow, you must have sounded like a proper Mafia lady to the Hong Kong restaurant staff. I don't want to mess with you. ;-) I was the one who over-roasted the nuts, the rest is all hubby's great work. And it was sweet and lovely, yes.
ma sei una (splendida) scoperta! Adovo le curiosità e le corrispondenze (o le disconnessioni) tra le varie lingue, una curiosità che ho soddisfatto solo in parte all'università, perciò questo tuo articolo mi è molto piaciuto! Anche da noi in Liguria si usa dire "parlare francese come una vacca spagnola", by the way, almeno dalle mie parti in terra frontaliera. :-)
Ciao Elena, benvenuta e grazie! La Liguria è nel mio cuore da quando con mio marito trascorremmo la nostra luna di miele nelle Cinque Terre. <3
Puoi dirmi di più sulla somiglianza fonetica tra genovese e portoghese? Crêuza de mä di De André suona così esotica.
Ahaha vuoi troppo ora…anche perché il genovese è diverso dal dialetto che parlano qua sul confine con la Francia (io sono di Sanremo). E comunque questa è una mia grande pecca: conosco pochissimo il dialetto della mia regione (vedi tu, ormai so meglio el venesian!)
Scommetto che eri una deliziosa biondina in gondoleta. ;-)
😅 na bea mora ciò!
Does donkey sound like year in French? Is that another possibility? Though I’m partial to the theory that the expression is because baby donkeys look cute.
Spot on, Erik: ans (as in years) and ânes (donkeys) are pronounced in the same way. But yes, baby donkeys look cute indeed.
Love the story about how the MIL started thawing due to Tanya’s language prowess.
Love to have you!
Really enjoyed this. When I lived in Italy, I was taught some Bergamasco - I'd then be invited to trot it out (and everybody would roll about laughing)...
You are a good sport and a brave one! Thanks for reading, I'm going to check out your Substack, looks like very much up my street!
There are 2 cities in S. Korea called Gwangju, one larger and one smaller, but in different provinces and both spelled the same way in modern Korean, which is phonetic. However, their names are based on different Chinese characters, the classical Chinese writing system having been the literary language of the country's upper class until the 19th century. The similarity in pronunciation was merely coincidental.
This is a gem, David, thank you. I can imagine how confusing it must be: "Let's meet in Gwangju!" – "Erm, which one?"
Something like that actually happened to me and a friend; not with Gwangju, but another place name. There are 2 neighbourhoods in Seoul with the same name, for the same reasons as explained above. My friend and I agreed to meet by a certain exit from the metro, but didn't find each other because we were in the "wrong" neighbourhood, lol.
I guess that happens all the time. :-D What pranksters, those Koreans! But we forgive them for their food. I'm also fond of K-dramas and K-romcoms.
The Korean Wave has truly swept the world. I wouldn't have believed it possible when I first went to Korea in the late 90s. The last K-drama, more a dramedy, that I watched was Dr. Cha.
I haven't seen Dr. Cha yet, but I really enjoyed Crash landing on you, 25-21, Reply 1988, and many others.
As someone who doesn’t have so much as an attached lobe for languages ( I live in Italy and I’m hopelessly shit ) it’s really interesting hearing about these little multilingual intricacies.
I wonder do words annoy you in other languages?
Hi Sam, not so much in other languages, because they still keep their "otherness". Whereabouts do you live in Italy?
That makes sense! So cool being able to dance between them. I live in Milan. How about yourself? Are you based in Italy
No, I live in the Netherlands, not far from Amsterdam. We left Italy in 2005, and have neither looked nor come back. And our daughter became a British citizen a couple of years ago. What do you do in Milan? Don't you find Italians extremely annoying? ;-)
Ooh I bet that’s lovely! Every Italian I know who left is constantly looking back. I work as an editor but for a uk company. How about yourself? Haha no, not at all! Possibly as I can’t completely understand them. But I find them super charming on the whole (my gf included!)
Well, if she's your girlfriend, she must be super charming, smart and witty: it takes one to know one, doesn't it?
I'm a freelance translator, trying to be a writer.
She certainly is! All those adjectives neatly apply to yourself as well. I would say you are a writer!
Borrowed from Stephen Hawking's idea, with Pink Floyd's 'Keep Talking' in the background: 'For millions of years, we lived like animals; then we learned to talk.' The saying goes, 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.' Humans expressed themselves through sounds and writing.
I find language evolution interesting and enjoy exploring the linguistic tree at times. European languages possess a unique charm, sounding distinctly pleasing and romantic. While reading your post, which I found it interesting, I checked the linguistic tree of Western Romance languages – take a look here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Romance_languages.
Welcome, Jean.Julius! Thank you for the link; how do you like this one? https://www.theguardian.com/education/gallery/2015/jan/23/a-language-family-tree-in-pictures
I appreciate the information, and I loved it. However, I couldn't find some of the older languages in the tree, particularly the Southern Brahmi scripts. Nevertheless, I understand that it's impossible to depict the entire list. Thank you for providing the link! :)
Edit : Sorry, I got it - the article is specifically for illustrating the relationships between Indo-European and Uralic languages. Please ignore the above comment regarding the Southern Brahmi scripts.
Salve Portia, come mi piace questo stack(! come si dice in italiano!). Auguri.
Bravissimo, Nicolas, grazie mille. Your stack is brilliant too!
Prego. E tante grazie.
What do you know about the Bread and Roses Strike.
Hi Gloria, I'm not an expert, but I remember what my dad told me, when I was a little girl and wanted to know what a trade union was for. He told me how those American women fought for all the workers' rights, and the hardship they had to endure, but their fights were crucial. "The rising of the women is the rising of the race".